Is the Mainstream Media getting the Supply Chain Crisis right? (Eric Johnson, JOC and Emma Cosgrove, Business Insider)

00:00:04: Hello and welcome to the logistics tribe I'm boss felgendreher found off the logistics tribe and today we will take a look at why and how the mainstream media has been covering the global supply chain crisis.

00:00:16: The topic is getting a tremendous amount of attention right now the president of the United States spoke out and intervene in the current transportation and supply chain situation.

00:00:25: And the headlines and major news outlets and the Evening News around the world are full of supply chain stories and attempts to explain what's going on.

00:00:33: So I invited to generous on to the show today who have been covering the world of global Transportation Logistics and supply chain for many years I wanted to get their take on what the mainstream media is getting right.

00:00:44: But they may be getting wrong and what the impacts may be on the situation as a result of how the story is covered Eric Johnson is senior editor at the trade publication Journal of Commerce,

00:00:54: and Emma Cosgrove is senior reporter for transportation and e-commerce topics of the online publication Business Insider

00:01:01: this conversation is a treat I hope you enjoy it as much as I did and since we're on the topic of supply chain disruptions and backlogs right before the holiday season I would like to thank gray orange for being a sponsor of the logistics tribe

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00:01:35: Please take a look at the show notes for links to more information and now without further ado.

00:01:40: Here come Eric Johnson and Emma Cosgrove enjoy hey Emma welcome to the logistics tribe,

00:01:48: why don't you give a really brief background of yourself how you got into covering supply chain and Logistics issues sure hi Eric okay so I'm Emma Cosgrove I'm a senior reporter at Business Insider

00:02:02: well Insider ink covering Logistics.

00:02:06: My coverage right now largely focuses on The Last Mile maybe like 80% Last Mile which is just a flake.

00:02:16: Fascinating space and honestly Last Mile in the u.s. because it's complicating so quickly that there is literally enough.

00:02:24: Dedicate my entire most of my time to it but given the current circumstances I have been doing a lot more sort of

00:02:31: broader supply chain coverage which is before this I was a reporter for supply chain dive which is a,

00:02:38: online trade publication covering Freight and Logistics operations procurement sort of the whole Spectrum.

00:02:45: And before that I covered Agriculture and before that I covered really fancy food and restaurants in New York City and that's sort of where it started for me because.

00:02:56: Kept asking famous chefs and sort of like Boutique food brands about their sourcing and I found that a lot more interesting than

00:03:06: I don't know branding and marketing and the sort of Glitz of it all and so I slowly made my way upstream and and here I am covering Logistics

00:03:16: all the time it sounds like you're you're breaking things down layer by layer until you like become a physicist and get to the like the atomic level of this but well I will let's focus.

00:03:30: Little bit on obviously the world today is,

00:03:34: seemingly infatuated with the area of the world that only we and a few others in the media business seemed to be infatuated with and just

00:03:46: you know in general like supply chain and Logistics issues,

00:03:49: coming up on earnings calls it's weird to to not see them come up on earnings calls now it's weird to not see our industry kind of.

00:03:59: You know kind of in the general discourse right so.

00:04:03: What do you what do you think is sort of first to start off what do you think is sort of driving the interest over and above that

00:04:12: you know they're there are some sort of shortages of certain products here and there there's obviously a lot of reporting about the congestion at ports globally why do you think it's been so heightened this time

00:04:25: well you and I know that.

00:04:28: Anyone who's been reporting on Port congestion and all kinds of the issues that are making mainstream news right now for nine months,

00:04:36: I mean I was reporting on this in February and it wasn't getting red and and.

00:04:43: I think that's because people don't have normal folks even like most reporters are.

00:04:48: Consumers when it comes to supply chain like that's their role in Supply chains and so when consumers start to feel it.

00:04:56: Or notice it then they want to report on it I think it's it's.

00:05:02: Not much more complicated than that and we've seen it I mean I've only been covering Supply chains for.

00:05:07: Five or six years and we've seen it three times in the last three years like this is

00:05:15: the third time I'm sort of experienced this sort of medium Maelstrom about supply chain of session but last year sort of PPE issues I think there was a similar

00:05:25: um Crescendo and there were a lot of like sort of a lot of explanatory journalism out there.

00:05:32: I think it's mostly a good thing and then before that it was trade War I mean it was tariffs and

00:05:38: a lot of those conversations sort of go in the same direction which is like we're having issues with our supply chains we can't get exactly what we want at the moment we want it.

00:05:49: Should we consider us manufacturing well here's how hard that is and why that's going to be virtually impossible for most products why it's going to take.

00:05:58: Hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars of investment and they're like okay so should we reconsider just-in-time manufacturing so that we have more inventory in the country in the first place and it's like well.

00:06:08: We probably should but also we have this thing called the quarterly earnings call where investors really like to see healthy profit margins and low inventories and that's still what they asked for so maybe nothing's going to change that much

00:06:21: this feels like a moment like that the only difference here.

00:06:25: Isn't this is clearly I mean if we assume that sort of consumers and the mainstream media are catching on now.

00:06:32: And not six months ago when it sort of started or not even started it started before that but if they're catching on now it's going to last through the end of the year.

00:06:42: Through Chinese New Year probably till the spring depending on a million various factors so it's going to be in there.

00:06:53: Sort of Consciousness longer this time.

00:06:55: And so that'll be super interesting to see if the reporting the mainstream reporting sort of keeps up because the story as you and I know very well doesn't change that much.

00:07:05: It's like it's still happening that's the story so yeah I'm fascinated to see it but

00:07:12: it's Groundhog Day for me and probably for you as well yeah so I wanted to hit on a couple things or sort of touch on a couple things one is you know.

00:07:22: Admittedly I can I can be the get off my lawn guy

00:07:26: um in the industry like and I you know there's certain things that sort of rub me the wrong way about the way

00:07:33: the mainstream media has covered this and I think that's why Boris wanted to have me on to sort of like cut through a little bit of what

00:07:42: maybe you know not connecting the dots enough or you know looking at the bigger picture kind of thing

00:07:49: the end it's true I am I can be very curmudgeonly in my old age at this point but you know I do think the one thing I'm a little curious about is there seems to be

00:08:00: the same sort of story that's been written to your point about Groundhog Day like.

00:08:05: Fifty a hundred times by now by various outlets right and it's a lot of times it appears to be covering the same ground that that.

00:08:14: Stories that were written about this three months ago or covering like can you take a step back and say is there still value to covering,

00:08:22: the same thing as it was covered three months ago because

00:08:26: chances are only 10% of people even caught the first piece in the first place and I'm just super attuned to what's being written about the industry right now or is it just that everybody in you know every Outlet feels they need to have covered their bases in terms of like oh we've done the we've done the port.

00:08:45: Is the ports are crowded story you know it is it my simplifying things too much you think no I don't think so I mean I think the.

00:08:54: We have to get kind of meta here and talk about,

00:08:56: media and journalism and to digital media because you know this one of the hardest lessons to learn from me as a.

00:09:06: Journalists in the digital age which like I'm in my 30s I've always been writing online I've written for one magazine in my life and that was 10 years ago.

00:09:17: It's that you're right like I'm very small percentage of the possible audience hits that story.

00:09:23: And that's where you can't recirculate in the search engines once it's weeks and weeks old it's just not going to recirculate so you might as well do it again.

00:09:33: And you do it differently and you report it out I think it's funny to see a lot of like the people that you and I talked to all the time show up in like the New York Times

00:09:43: yeah it's like it's like one of my family members has been quoted or something it's really strange that I got you that guy I've seen him talk to him like for 12 years it's good he's getting good job

00:09:53: yeah but the nature of media as it exists today especially online is that

00:09:58: when you shop to the New York Times home page or the Wall Street Journal homepage you want to see that thing you saw.

00:10:06: On the news on the TV news like it all has to sit all sort of works together and I feel like.

00:10:12: Working at the publication I work out which is extremely audience aware and like to the second like engineering what we need to be covering not just what the news is but also what is our audience want to know right this second

00:10:24: and getting stories out as soon as possible

00:10:27: I think that's a lot of what's happening right now and that means that the one of the most important elements in news and the hardest one to harness is timing and like.

00:10:36: You know I wrote a big story about Port congestion in February it did fine but it didn't do great it might have done really well today but for me personally it feels very silly to write it again you know to be report it because it's,

00:10:51: it's also not news to me so in some ways I sort of like I've we've got some great reporters at Insider who are.

00:11:00: Writing like through five six seven stories a week on different

00:11:05: Port situations and there's a great story just today or yesterday about Air Freight Charters which I hadn't seen anywhere else like they're doing great reporting and part of the reason that they're doing it well I think is because it's new to them.

00:11:21: And so they you know they're better at this in this moment

00:11:25: I'm not good at it in this moment I'm doing the analysis but like the this is happening it doesn't feel like I can't put an exclamation of the courts don't run 24 hours a day the how is this not happening to that's you know I know that's been kind of the hook

00:11:39: and we'll get into that the reason for that in a sec because obviously the whole button you know announcement this past week but.

00:11:48: Um your you raise an interesting point in that it's important even for people in our position where we're writing to like maybe a more informed audience about the subjects you still have to put yourself in their shoes and assume,

00:12:01: but they don't.

00:12:02: They don't know all of the things that you might know and they might not be as cynical about the things that you have written about a million times because the flip side of that is we've also we've all come across stories where someone.

00:12:15: Has where we read something and someone has addressed.

00:12:19: This this industry as if there are six parts and we know that there are 7,000 parts and we don't even know the other fifty thousand parts that we don't know yet because we haven't our career hasn't.

00:12:33: Touch those things yet and and and the flip you know and then but then empathizing with the person whose job it is.

00:12:40: Jump on this massive interconnected story we've all been there too right we've all been told hey write something super informative and authoritative.

00:12:49: On it topic you know nothing about go right like so I'm very empathetic to the ice I'm sort of I've sort of reached this point around empathetic toward the writer and not as much toward the outlet.

00:13:01: If that makes sense because the outlet should.

00:13:05: Be putting the writer in a position it may be a better position to to like tackle what is a really complicated subject so.

00:13:16: I think that's true I think I feel really lucky in this moment because I am writing a few pieces about this and my editors are not supply chain folks.

00:13:25: Um right now and that is great,

00:13:29: because they're very well-informed laymen on this issue and and Logistics in general and that has been hugely helpful for me because you know.

00:13:38: I came from the trades which I think is I think a lot of you know I'm always looking at like which reporters are covering it and who they put on it,

00:13:46: because they don't like the New York Times doesn't have someone covering the stuff all the time and.

00:13:52: It seems like a lot of Economics reporters and and sort of more General like internationally minded business reporters and stuff which is a good thing I think I think economics reporters are used to the sort of level of complexity and.

00:14:07: General chaos because I think a lot of the interviews I've heard where the interviewers like what do you mean like we don't have enough the containers aren't in the right place like don't they go back to where they're supposed to go.

00:14:21: Every time I like what do you mean this is sort of a chaos driven system so.

00:14:29: Nora is going that but anyway I think having folks on on it who don't usually cover is really helpful because those articles aren't from for you and me and they're not for your aunt the Jo C audience either you know therefore,

00:14:42: the Jo see audiences like partners and you know adult child maybe their bosses or maybe there wasn't yeah I don't know but the other thing that's been really amazing Eric and I want to hear what you have to say about this because I've been noticing even supply chain folks.

00:14:57: Disagreeing a lot,

00:14:58: online you know like now that we're sort of getting deeper in the weeds because like you said like the early stories about this was like there are two issues them now I think it's like

00:15:07: people are mostly like there are six or seven issues and we know that it's there are there are millions of issues there's so many issues.

00:15:15: And that is well I don't know that's a certain amount of complexity has to be distilled down but a lot of people disagree I'm seeing a lot of likes patting among the books in our space,

00:15:26: well it is it's hard to tell this story correctly and Encompass everyone it's really difficult

00:15:32: and that's it makes it hard to legislate or sort of figure out a you know for one body to create some sort of solution

00:15:40: two things they think are interesting that you brought up one is that there is and this is sort of an alpha dog,

00:15:48: kind of industry in that people are very sure of themselves

00:15:53: in general even when they're very sort of self-effacing or they're really sweet to deal with you have to be confident you're dealing with literally the lifeblood of a companies.

00:16:04: Of a company that makes things or buy things right like if you don't if you mess up your you are in trouble in your company's in trouble right so there's a certain amount of.

00:16:14: Confidence that comes with that roll right and so you generally especially after a few years think you're right so I think that's surfacing a little bit,

00:16:24: one thing that's been really interesting in my career is that there is less.

00:16:30: Sort of understanding of other stakeholders in this like in the global logistics world then we might.

00:16:37: Ordinarily assumed like if you're a if you're a shipper and all you've ever done is be shipper you you understand what a forwarder does and you understand.

00:16:45: When a carrier doesn't understand what all the companies you interface with do but you may not,

00:16:51: be putting yourselves in their shoes in the same way as if you've held multiple roles across your career and you really understand what it took to those jobs and so a lot of times I'm sure you see this too

00:17:03: a lot of times ice

00:17:04: I get a conversations with a certain entity revolve around hey what is everyone else thinking about this you know I want to understand a little bit better about,

00:17:13: because I can't for whatever reason it may be it's a,

00:17:17: play a little bit of a tricky commercial relationship I don't they don't want to necessarily talk directly to me about this but I would love to know how they think about it you know so there's that

00:17:26: which I think contributes to what you're saying which is everyone sort of has a different sort of view there's they have a pain point.

00:17:33: And that pain point is is their idea of what is causing their supply chain to be troubled the other thing is the last year-and-a-half and maybe it's because of the crazy growth of e-commerce.

00:17:44: In the sellers that are attached to e-comm there's just way more people on social media especially on the shipper side of things than ever before like,

00:17:54: I was on Twitter I've been on Twitter since I think 2011-2012 before the pandemic there were not many shippers on Twitter like it was I could probably less than one hand I could name the shippers on Twitter,

00:18:07: they were very reticent to talking and this new crop of people who are managing Supply chains who are very online.

00:18:16: You know they're out there they're having public discussions it's great it's really cool actually to see sort of this but a lot of them are driven I won't say all but a lot of them are driven from this sort of e-comm,

00:18:28: explosion that we've seen and they are just they are they don't,

00:18:32: they aren't living according to rules that were set for their role 20 years ago you know they're also very very small

00:18:40: it's really important in the grand scheme even if I mean a lot of them post I know this works you and not all of them obviously but I see them sort of posts they're very transparent about sort of sales volume and

00:18:51: containers and all that stuff and and in the grand scheme of things they're extremely small witch,

00:18:57: you have to take into account if you're going to rate you know put their experience in context and that's sort of a difficult thing about social media as well as that.

00:19:05: If I see like a forwarder or anybody who claims to do Logistics talking about the situation on the ground.

00:19:12: It's very difficult without interrogating that person to figure out what exactly their lens on it is what Lanes they have access to just like mentally and also.

00:19:23: That's something that you know I think really good supply chain reporting requires that.

00:19:31: That's where the experience comes in because you can sort of interrogate an interview subject before you even talk to them and sort of figure out.

00:19:40: They have a view of a slice of the world and what is their slice look like so that I can put their experience in context for more General reporting and honestly I haven't seen that many shippers.

00:19:51: Quoted in media so far I've seen a lot of foreigners in carriers and stuff.

00:19:58: So this isn't that much of an issue but if you can't that context is essential and Reporting without that context can easily lead to sort of sensationalist quotes and headlines have seemed really dramatic but like.

00:20:11: Like I talked to a guy who recently left General Mills and Supply Chain management recently.

00:20:16: And he was I was like you know what do you think is going on and he was like well you got your eye on your own paper when you're shipper that's at large right if your paper looks okay.

00:20:25: And it probably does you know at that at that scale it's probably they're probably getting it they're probably figuring it out then.

00:20:33: Then you're fine and the this whole media.

00:20:36: Thing is not affecting you if you know where your stuff is so yeah n equals one is kind of part of the problem so too there's a couple.

00:20:47: Things that I've come across that are really interesting and one one is back to something you originally said about

00:20:53: sorry Shoring or you know basic manufacturing back here is there was someone posted a quote stat from am Cham China recently that said something like seventy two percent of their members have not even considered.

00:21:07: Moving sourcing away from China.

00:21:11: So like recently so that means despite everything that's going on we are not seeing some massive upheaval of like

00:21:20: you know reshoring right yeah need to see the question there as well because first of course this is it this is better stats or take that for what it's worth but.

00:21:29: Um well last year PWC and am Tim did I think they did the same survey this year it might have come out last week which is I said that I need to do my reading but there were PWC did a lot of great surveys last year.

00:21:41: Pandemic wise about sourcing shifts and.

00:21:45: It was always like diversification but not no one wants to get out of China it's like do we have a we have a second option and then it sort of quickly became because the pandemic shifted around so much and is still sort of Shifting around.

00:21:59: Are we do we just have our bases covered now we have enough diversification.

00:22:03: That we feel comfortable and having Plan B plan C you know all that stuff but those are those costs you talked about right like when the

00:22:12: when the earnings come and you've got you've got for suppliers to manage and it's they're not all optimal instead of two.

00:22:19: Does that make shareholders happy right when things are a little bit more normal yeah I mean that's where you that's where I used to call the pandemic an extinction level event for retailers and I still think it might be for some because.

00:22:33: If you don't if your costs can't.

00:22:35: Our cost structure can't tolerate that level of Supply Chain management of active Supply Chain management it means you were built on shifting Sands to begin with.

00:22:44: There are a lot of retailers who had very sort of,

00:22:48: convoluted Supply chains who didn't do a ton of direct purchasing who weren't necessarily dealing with anyone on the ground in the country where there was there were ultimately sourcing from there was a lot of sort of middlemen in there if you are working in a supply chain like that you're not.

00:23:02: You were probably got away from that and the last year I would hope and if you didn't then you're going to be in trouble and that's like not even about sourcing changes in terms of country of origin it's just about.

00:23:13: Your organizational structure.

00:23:16: And God that horrible word agility but like do you even have do you even have the like the wherewithal to make changes if you need to you know that step one and that's not.

00:23:28: Sexy at all it's true it's necessary but yeah like this are seeing changes are always fascinating and I don't know what lesson honestly don't know what lesson people are going to learn from.

00:23:42: The last 18 months in terms of sourcing I don't think getting away from China is one of them.

00:23:47: I think diversification in general is probably one of them but we've seen a lot also a lot of like,

00:23:53: it's in the mainstream Media stuff with semiconductors and there are a couple other raw materials that are literally only available from a few companies a few places and.

00:24:05: That's the kind of thing where it's like you know that's not a quick fix that's a that's a long term.

00:24:12: Very expensive fix that we should probably look at as a.

00:24:17: And I'm not we but folks are probably look at as a fundamental threat to a lot of businesses but not all supply chain.

00:24:27: Compromise at the bottom that's it yeah I wrote about this last week it's like one of the things that's getting conflated is supply chain issues.

00:24:35: Transportation issues right like what's happening at the Port right now.

00:24:40: Is a transportation issue it's a someone put it actually way better than I did like a 7 tweets read about it.

00:24:48: It's someone else put it did it set it and once we we have a issue of abundance it's not an issue of scarcity right now right we have too much stuff trying to fit through to small pipe not.

00:24:57: The semiconductor stuff is the opposite of that that is we don't have his critical this critical.

00:25:06: Every other product Downstream is is based around that's not that

00:25:11: I call this the hundred 25 breakfast cereals instead of only 150 breakfast cereal issue right like we do not have a problem with products in general but to your point.

00:25:22: Every individual company is going to experience a different version of what is going on in some will experience relatively little.

00:25:31: Disruption and others will represent experience potentially existential disruption and but as you look across an entire industry and as you look across a consumer sort of.

00:25:45: Environment I think the reporting a little bit and not even the reporting because the reporting is based on what is being said in many cases.

00:25:54: From the the leaders at the top and that now goes all the way up to the president it's misaligned a little bit with what.

00:26:03: Like our experiences yes there is massive disruption right now Christmas is probably not going to be cancelled,

00:26:09: right I think there's we're all going to have stuff under the tree it may not be our first choice that maybe our second out of you know 50 million choices but.

00:26:21: You know that sort of messaging I think is not entirely helpful and actually there's been some interesting reporting in the last week that like even just.

00:26:30: You know kind of continuing with that narrative is actually worsening the problem right because it's creating like retailers and their suppliers have.

00:26:39: Forecast that they base their.

00:26:41: Their entire product and transportation Cycles around if you all the sudden say there's a run on something in some random week in October

00:26:50: that throws all of those forecasts and all that planning out the window because they never would have known that someone was going to say that there was going to be a run on.

00:26:57: This product and that has a rebound effect on everything so I sort of wish everyone would take a little bit of a deep breath on this and realize there's a lot of people who dedicate their whole life to trying to figuring this stuff out

00:27:09: and they're tired and they're exasperated but they're not like hopeless and they have not run out of ideas of how to do their job

00:27:18: yeah I think I think one of the most important lessons it'll be interesting to see if we're if people are still interested in this in a month

00:27:26: or two months because I think if Black Friday sort of goes off without massive you know photos of empty shelves everywhere and then

00:27:39: we'll probably forget all about it as a country but um.

00:27:43: I think the number one and this has been said I think you just said it like small businesses.

00:27:49: Are going to be the ones who for whom this is a really big problem and and by small as small as pretty big it's also like you know National retailers some of them are

00:28:01: in terms of shipper size they're pretty small sort of midsize retailer but apart from that the other side of that coin is that.

00:28:09: All of this media coverage and the sort of supply chain issues as well are going to do if they're going to do anything they're going to benefit Amazon and like.

00:28:19: If you are concerned about having something in your hands when you want it in your hands you get on your phone and you order it from Amazon because it comes two days later and also,

00:28:30: they are one of the most powerful shippers out there right now

00:28:33: they have a lot of Sway and they get their stuff you know so I think that's going to be I hope that story survives I hope that one comes through because.

00:28:47: Those are those market dynamics that this whole situation is going to change are there going to be massive

00:28:56: and they're they're indicative of so many learned your Trends but the big guy is being good at managing this possibly at the expense of the little guys is that's a it's a nuanced story I think it's a difficult one to tell

00:29:11: but it's important so I hope it's told I wonder I wonder the same thing and I think I've always sort of taken the approach that,

00:29:21: people's fascination with this stuff will eventually fade away but I don't know if it will fade away in the way that it normally does which is,

00:29:30: to say that like no one cares about it at all until you know something happens I think there will be a Baseline,

00:29:38: understanding of what you know sort of supply chain and Logistics is that didn't exist pre all of this.

00:29:45: Um in the way that like we kind of know how last-mile works now because you know it's worse we interact with it on a daily basis.

00:29:54: This morning on the New York I'm sorry I was listening to the New York Times podcast today and the interviewer asked.

00:30:01: Why are if we have so much if so much stuff is in Warehouse as a warehouse there's are bursting why don't I get my packages on time.

00:30:10: And I just wanted to raise my hand and feel like ma'am those are two very different issues I know the store I know the answer ma'am yeah.

00:30:20: Look like bless your heart but those are two very different issues so you that I think is what you just hit on is there I think there's going to be.

00:30:29: More awareness that there are things going on that Empower our ability to shop whether online or in a store.

00:30:37: Or you know just kind of keep the engines of industrial of our industrial World working the tricky part is going to be how those connections you know get made and whether there's enough interest for.

00:30:51: It to be Beyond you and I and you know the handful of other reporters who will it's more than a handful but you know a few dozen other reporters who you know report on this every day making those connections is that going to is the is the broader,

00:31:06: Market the broader world can it have enough interest to make those connections when things are kind of working pretty well.

00:31:12: That's I think that probably Fades away but I think at least at the very least there's like a 101 level if not,

00:31:21: you know 201 level of what's going on that will last and when something comes up again people we won't have to explain everything you know down to the studs like maybe we did before so that's okay,

00:31:35: honestly because 101 was Suez

00:31:38: my bad that was great it wasn't great really cracked it wasn't great but it was a very interesting teaching it was a lesson yes it was a lesson

00:31:49: yeah that's true that's true I actually presented to my kids my second grade kids class about it

00:31:55: I realized how little I knew about the canal before that so I mean same but also I have reporters on my team and I love Insider because if you're curious and if the audience is into it you can

00:32:06: go in any direction you want basically and there are there was at least one if not two reporters who just got really into.

00:32:13: Should be about that super into it and they like talk to the guy with the Digger trying to get like in that photo they talked to that guy you know they talked to they've done some reporting about folks who work on cargo ships and.

00:32:27: They've just done some cool reporting that you know us industry folks are not doing the sort of personal stories so I think that's a hugely beneficial thing that's come out of all of this too and I hope that continues.

00:32:38: Very cool Emma so there was some big news this week or last week I should say where

00:32:44: president actually sort of got out in front of this issue in a way that

00:32:48: few presidents ever have in our space there's been obviously a lot of sort of critique I would say of the plan of sort of lacking the the you know kind of

00:33:00: connecting the bigger picture to what's going on it just supports what was your first reaction to it and what's been as you've talked to people in your reporting what's,

00:33:09: what's your takeaway from whether there will actually be some lasting impact from this cool I'm not sure I'm equipped to answer the second part of that one but the first part which was what was my takeaway my takeaway was this is it,

00:33:21: this is a politicians approach which is simplify the problem and attack the one part of it that you've simplified it to La Long Beach is.

00:33:33: Is an issue obviously it plays an enormous part in all of the Dynamics we've been talking about this all the time but.

00:33:40: 24/7 operations at La Long Beach is not going to fix all of our problems I don't know to what extent it is going to fix any of her

00:33:50: problems we're going to find out I think it's not helpful that the following reporting in reaction to that has now become operations to La Long Beach are in,

00:34:01: Biden territory and therefore conservative media is already scrutinizing how fast or slow those.

00:34:10: Measures are being taken which cannot be helpful but I don't I don't know if that actually is going to have any impact on the ground whatsoever.

00:34:20: So yeah I mean it doesn't seem like it can hurt but is it gonna massively change things doesn't seem like it.

00:34:29: Is the sense I get ya I just real briefly I would say two things people should maybe Google from about 20 2006 the word pierpass,

00:34:39: which was an attempt literally 15 years ago to try to induce,

00:34:44: not just supports but the ecosystem that depends on the ports to go to move to 24/7 operations and obviously that means.

00:34:52: You can't just have the terminals.

00:34:55: Open the gates open 24 hours a day you need to have where Downstream facilities that receive containers you need to have all the transportation providers that shuttle those containers back and forth

00:35:05: all coordinated right on that third night time shift right that's been written

00:35:09: but I would say that this is not this is not something that just dawned on the industry yesterday and and the second part is.

00:35:20: You know we've talked a bit about big shippers versus small shippers.

00:35:25: This is this is an area where big shippers are just better prepared a better equipped,

00:35:31: to align their own operations with the 24-hour 24/7 operation then a lot of smaller and midsize shippers who are depending on you know

00:35:41: third party contract Logistics providers and they're depending on all of their providers who over which they don't have the same leverage right so never mind you know,

00:35:51: and networks that they own or control right so it's a your I think I think you put it well I think it's a.

00:35:59: This is a political very public move to be seen to be addressing an issue but there's so many moving Parts it's just really hard to say pinpoint one area and say now we fixed it or we're on the way to fixing it

00:36:11: yeah I mean one of the things I think President Biden was doing was.

00:36:15: Trying to sort of quell the panic and be like listen guys like we can handle this as a country and I think that's a fair sentiment but the way we're going to handle it is that.

00:36:26: Professionals that we've been talking about this whole time who are very tired and overworked and I've been doing this for 18 months are going to keep doing what they do until we could get.

00:36:35: The backlog through and they're going to I mean that's the only way to do it I kind of wish there was a way to.

00:36:44: That's so many different positions like job titles and so many different companies but they could use a little I mean.

00:36:53: Port workers absolutely dry as drivers absolutely let's like celebrate all of these people we need to be talking about them on the national stage but there are a lot of people,

00:37:02: who are doing this work and their work is not like Niche you know it's not like quaint it's,

00:37:10: just incredibly important always cooking right underneath the surface of this economy so he could talk about them a bit that'd be great

00:37:20: wrong we will leave it at that yeah but excellent points Emma tell people how to

00:37:27: get in touch with you and where to see your stuff yeah sure I write for business insider.com on the transportation page you can check that out I'm at Emma cause IM Mac OS on Twitter

00:37:40: I'm on LinkedIn you can find my email all over the internet I'm very accessible please come and talk to me cool,

00:37:47: thank you so much this has been awesome to talk to you about this I know we talked we've talked about this a bunch offline so it's good to have a conversation that everyone can listen in on so.

00:37:57: What this crazy world that were in and to you.

00:38:02: Bye all right that was the logistics tribe podcast episode with Eric Johnson and Emma Cosgrove if you work a logistics and supply chain in related fields you should follow what Eric and M are riding on these topics

00:38:15: I'll leave links in the show notes so you can follow them thanks for listening to the logistics tribe I'm boys felgendreher until next time.