MIT professor Yossi Sheffi on how to solve our global supply chain, pandemic and climate change problems

00:00:06: Hello and welcome to the logistics tribe I'm boys felgendreher founder of the little six tribe and today we are proud to have the legendary professor yossi sheffi as a guest on the show,

00:00:16: dr. yaste sheffi is Professor of Engineering Systems at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology where he serves as director of the MIT Center for transportation Logistics

00:00:26: he's an expert in systems optimization risk analysis in Supply Chain management which are the subjects he researches and teaches at MIT both at the MIT School of Engineering.

00:00:36: At the Sloan School of Management.

00:00:38: He's also a very prolific author of several books including the power of resilience how the best companies manage the unexpected balancing green when to embrace sustainability in business and when not to.

00:00:50: The new abnormal reshaping business and supply chain strategy Beyond covid-19 and his latest book a shot in the arm how science engineering and Supply chains converge to vaccinate the world.

00:01:02: Was just published a couple of weeks ago this episode of the logistics tribe has hosted by Marco Polo Maya and covers a wide range of topics the semiconductor shortage supply chain disruptions due to covid climate change globalization and the role technology can play

00:01:17: to tackle all of those issues.

00:01:19: This episode is brought to you by our partner gray orange grey orange sits at the Forefront of a trend that you see considers absolutely essential.

00:01:28: Robotic Warehouse automation gray oranges smart robots and AI enabled Warehouse automation platform are already implemented in fulfillment centers and warehouses all around the world

00:01:37: I recently interviewed Akash Gupta founder and CTO of grey orange for an episode of the podcast of the German Logistics Association bvl.

00:01:46: If you're interested I will leave a link to that episode in the show notes now the accounts Professor yossi sheffi enjoy.

00:01:56: Hello you'll see welcome to the logistics tribe thank you for having me Marco yes it's an honor to have you on the tribe

00:02:03: we are mostly our listeners are mostly coming from a logistics background so it's really an honor to talk to you about Supply chains and I would like to actually start with your last book not the last one but the one before which is called the power of resilience

00:02:21: right now in the times to recall it I was reading through it again and you actually mentioned.

00:02:28: Already back then it was I think it was published in 2015 and you already mentioned a lot of the problems that we are seeing right now already back then of course it was

00:02:41: mainly basically focus on to the Fukushima trouble that we had back then on the supply chain side but you also mentioned for example to risk with semiconductors already back then you called it an innovation risk because some companies or some Industries are moving

00:03:00: slower than other ones and you also mentioned actually pandemic risk back then in this book and now

00:03:09: we are here in this situation right now in these days so

00:03:14: what actually went wrong or what did people not listen to him you writing this book and now we are in this situation these days you'll see

00:03:23: it's of course I wish people would listen of course I wish they would listen more I actually tried.

00:03:30: Even in my previous book I wrote about the fact the United States doesn't have enough ventilators.

00:03:36: So it's in the 2005 book what you can do you write a book you give talks you give presentation you send it to local politicians.

00:03:48: Of course they do nothing so it look I understand it in some sense nobody wants to think about bad things,

00:03:56: it's much nicer to talk to them about

00:03:59: the bright future with a lot of innovation and new technology and everybody lives to 150 and all the people don't like to even contemplate such a bad news there's also the question of where would the money come from to do all this preparation

00:04:13: so interestingly during Bill Clinton's presidency Bill Clinton started National.

00:04:20: Stockpile of ppes and ventilators and medical equipment President Bush.

00:04:27: Grow it even further of course he had a 911 and he grew it from pres Obama Let It Go to almost nothing.

00:04:34: You did not replenish it there was actually a step into the right direction in building up some inventory of the right Goods but then the time since the last event was so long that people forgot about it interestingly.

00:04:48: Bill Clinton President Clinton did not have any event he read the book on pandemics you read a book

00:04:55: and of course he was one of our more intelligent presidents so it's a you know he actually took actions and President Bush increase it but then Obama,

00:05:06: Let It Go to nothing did not replenish it even though he had H1N1 and he had several small smaller pandemic.

00:05:14: Did not could not imagine what it means.

00:05:18: Went down to nothing I should tell you that companies did become a lot better I wrote that my first book on resilient in 2005.

00:05:27: And since 2005 to the many companies have become better now with all the there is no way.

00:05:35: The companies by themselves could deal with something like covid-19.

00:05:40: I mean it's too big it's Global it involves a lot what can companies do if China closes its border.

00:05:47: I mean it is what it is specific company can do very little for it what can companies do if workers don't come to work,

00:05:55: if the government give them a lot of money if demand goes up you know in an unprecedented way and people don't realize that you have to acquit but supply and demand and supply.

00:06:05: Has a lot of physics in it factories can do only so much rugs can go only so fast is only so so many container ships are only so many containers and the policymakers don't think in these terms,

00:06:18: I think in terms of economics in terms of Curves you know there's a camera supply there's a curve of demand we can.

00:06:25: Okay that's not quite works because the timeline is fundamentally different.

00:06:30: Between the ability to pump the market and a lot of money into the market increase demand.

00:06:36: Supply building a new fabrication plant Me Take 5 years for years.

00:06:41: I mean billions of dollars it doesn't happen at the same speed and so we are now living in this mismatch between supply and demand.

00:06:49: And coming back again to the special case of a situation in the semiconductor industry because

00:06:56: does this quite a big issue right now and I'm also coming from the automotive industry sure is it actually a supply chain problem or is it more a fabrication problem or how do you see that

00:07:09: it is a supply chain problem in that sense but what happened is.

00:07:13: Is it a very specific problem with the chips the problem is that during the height of the pandemic in need 2020 and later part of 2020 people we're not buying cars,

00:07:25: or a lot less than Norman so all these automotive company reduce their orders for Jeeps,

00:07:32: in the meantime there's another demand for chips because people stay home so laptops and cameras and games the demand went through the roof.

00:07:42: So a cheap maker said okay here is a market that's going down and here is a market that's growing up let's and long-term contract with a market that's going up.

00:07:52: And they did so now Automotive came back that's it they are already locked into contact with others and they cannot increase Supply very quickly

00:08:02: the most interesting cases what happened with Toyota Toyota after the Japan disaster realized that for be caishen plane take a long time to increase capacity.

00:08:12: So they started accumulating inventory and in fact that when the pandemic came they had the big inventory of the right chips that they need for their cars,

00:08:21: which are different than the chips that goes into let's say iPhones because the chips is going to font at the latest chip the chip that goes into automotive and plant and there are always two or three generation behind.

00:08:33: Because what's most important is not being the most advanced chip

00:08:37: but safety is important so you want to make sure there's enough time in the jeep has been tested so Automotive is using chips that usually two or three generation behind just like many others

00:08:47: and didn't have enough of this trips so we started talking about Toyota so Toyota had this

00:08:53: inventory of chips and in fact they did great during the beginning of 2021 when the market started going up.

00:09:01: In Q2 and in the second quarter and third quarter of 2021.

00:09:06: For the first time ever Toyota was the number one seller of cars in the United States more than General Motors.

00:09:13: Because everybody else did not have the chips Toyota had them but guess what.

00:09:18: That's why I'm saying that just-in-time is not the problem because even somebody who had all the inventory when you have disruption of this magnitude it runs out.

00:09:29: And sure enough before the end of Q3 Toyota announced 40 percent reduction in production,

00:09:35: what is the reason behind that you'll see why did they ran out because they did have not have enough,

00:09:42: piled up in there are houses or was the reason because other components that also use chips inside ran out at they could not build the car what do you think was the reason all of this in the sense that they kept going from.

00:09:57: When the market start going up with the vaccination in January February March this year they had the pile up and they were still getting about.

00:10:05: Sixty percent of what they needed.

00:10:08: But they can for the other 40% they use the inventory and then the inventory ran out so there are still getting sixty percent so they had to take a 40% cut in production.

00:10:18: My point is that for disruption of that magnitude you cannot have enough inventory.

00:10:25: You just cannot it's too much and unfortunately what is happening now,

00:10:30: they're all kind of secondary effect that are happening with chips with everything else we're having at least in the United States Germany Europe is a little different in the United States we see we're becoming more and more European.

00:10:45: Labor unions are starting to be much stronger we start having significant inflation.

00:10:51: Because you know of course when does a shortage people raise prices,

00:10:56: but also we don't have enough workers so workers in fact are raising prices they are raising salary demand that we have strikes now throughout the economy.

00:11:05: Many companies are getting strikes because workers are negotiating much tougher why because they can you know I went to buy a car.

00:11:15: And the dealer wanted five thousand dollars more.

00:11:18: Then the manufacturer's suggested retail price I didn't buy it because I said this is extortion I'm not buying so I bought another brand

00:11:26: but you know people are using the opportunity because they can basically,

00:11:30: but also the labor shortage issue your see this is not really a new thing right because we were also talking about the trucking especially in the trucking business about Labor shortage

00:11:42: I don't know two or three years ago I think it already started but it seems,

00:11:48: it's just growing and growing into a problem and nobody knows how to handle it in the supply chain okay we can talk about Trucking in particular but there are the shortage of workers in every industry

00:12:00: right now it's not tracking tracking it's not 23 years round it's 30 40 years problem,

00:12:06: okay you've been longer it's in one section of the tracking is a truckload the full truckload section out in less than truckload not in group page what you can group it that's not the problem because,

00:12:16: do United States in particular driving a truck load.

00:12:20: Long whole it means you are three weeks out of home because you go from place to place with you go home you stay for a weekend and you go and again for three weeks it's a lousy way to,

00:12:30: to make a living but what happens because of these people don't realize how very so just pay them more.

00:12:36: It doesn't work why does it work because if you pay them or they stay home more.

00:12:41: They're really not rent maximizing their what's Conrad satisfying they want to make a certain amount of money,

00:12:48: it on the margin they'll trade off being more time at home than being on the road have been experiments about it and,

00:12:54: yeah it helps on the margin but not nearly as much as people think so there are many other problems it's the same people who drive trucks or many of the same people also work in the construction industry and if you want to see a driver shortage

00:13:08: wait until the United States will institute the infrastructure program,

00:13:11: truck driver shortage will go through the roof but as I say it's not only truck driver shortage has a lot of it is because the US has under invested in infrastructure for decades,

00:13:22: you know if you go to Port of Rotterdam in you go to Port of Los Angeles Long Beach you get depressed as an American you get depressed.

00:13:30: Or I spent a lot of time in the port of Singapore or Ningbo and Shanghai.

00:13:36: When you see a more than well operating port and you compare it to most of you as Sports it's just it's not automated or very likely automated it's not working right now they're working 24/7 my God.

00:13:51: Reporting the world always work 24/7 it's not something new here it's something new.

00:13:56: And the whole system is not ready for it on top of it they are environmental regulations.

00:14:01: That are not helping give you one example if you want to get the dredge rock that going to La Long Beach in Southern California have to be less than 5 years old,

00:14:12: so many small operators cannot get into the port and big companies are not sure they want to invest because,

00:14:19: the California law that is says in 2030 you must have electric trucks,

00:14:25: so they're not going to invest even in you know diesel truck that are more efficient to get into the port on new diesel truck you have all this problem everybody salts what happened is.

00:14:34: I don't know I guess.

00:14:37: Politicians need to understand system thinking because it's you try to solve one problem and I understand I understand try to solve the pollution problem in Southern California.

00:14:47: But you have to take into account what it means what are the other implications of this if you look at each one should the United States put three and a half trillion dollars now on social programs,

00:14:59: yes it would be nice but do you realize that the shortage will be unbelievably worth.

00:15:05: Why is he man so high not another lie because people over the pandemic and got a lot of money many of them didn't have to pay rent.

00:15:13: Because you couldn't have big them it was very generous unemployment and they couldn't spend on movies on restaurant.

00:15:19: People had money so come 2nd you know with the vaccination and everything people started spending.

00:15:27: So they buy so demand poop went to the roof and it's really amazing for me that politician didn't even the central bank and didn't think about it ahead of time that you can yeah you can increase the man but you cannot increase Supply the same rate,

00:15:42: takes a while to increase Supply yeah and with all those

00:15:45: bigger issues that are coming in the supply chain you really need a good understanding on how the one thing is affecting the other one's right so even though California regulations on some trucks or sustainability could actually affect,

00:16:02: the whole supply chain in this region right

00:16:04: not in this region throughout the United States LA and Long Beach have forty percent of the incoming containers to the United States.

00:16:12: And your point of view is this actually something that is somehow not regulated or there is missing actually an overall supply chain manager for countries or something like that is that something you could imagine or,

00:16:26: I can imagine this and I argue in several publication and with friends in the White House and in Congress that,

00:16:34: we should have argued for this long that we should have a supply chain office in the United States just look at the system it really interesting that President Biden is now starting to think this way,

00:16:46: start to think there are some critical items I think the thing that changed the thinking was understanding that it's actually a national security issue.

00:16:55: So it's not just that people don't have toys for Christmas it's actually a national security issue if you cannot get the latest chips if you cannot get

00:17:03: you know material the national security problem so I think that are now starting to pay more attention to it but the problem is not even this administration of debt Administration it's the fact that democracy in general.

00:17:17: Is run by pressure groups so if I'm in Germany have the greens I know what the greens are thinking.

00:17:24: But the greens don't have too many policies aside from environmental policies.

00:17:29: So the pressure group so in the United States of course they're environmentally that but there is no overarching understanding of the economy at large it's not even just supply chain is the economy at Large

00:17:42: what will be the impact of this environmental law,

00:17:46: what will be the impact for example right now the Biden Administration is stopped a lot of the fracking in the United States guess what,

00:17:54: gas prices are up so now that dog into fracking and trying to restart fracking

00:18:00: how can you not realize that this will be the case I understanding you know cause and effect in a complex system is the is the world economy it's not even the United States is the world economy so.

00:18:12: Yes we need more and more people who understand and the said system thinking that everything is connected to everything else and you cannot just press on one button

00:18:22: and get the result you want this always unintended consequences so let's think ahead of time about their own unintended consequences,

00:18:28: which brings us back again to the semiconductor issue you'll see because I think there happened something very good now in the u.s. I think it's called the chip act and they want to bring,

00:18:40: one of the big manufacturers actually,

00:18:43: to the US I think they are building now a big fat in Arizona or close to Arizona is this actually the first step away from globalization you'll see

00:18:54: first of all let's talk specifically about chips before before we talk in general so the US the EU South Korea Japan,

00:19:04: our old putting a lot of money into creating their own chip industry their own fabrication plant in the United States and Europe are trying to bring Taiwan semiconductor.

00:19:14: One of the leaders in chip fabrication to Europe to the United States

00:19:19: both places Intel is is committed to rebuilding and doing more so yes as I said because government realize it has a lot of implications when you don't have the chips it's not only Automotive Group

00:19:33: only 10 days or 9% of the wood chip Supply goes through Automotive.

00:19:37: So it's not only Automotive you goes to a but lately I don't know if you realize it but iPhone Apple has reduced the launch of iPhone 13.

00:19:46: They don't have chips I just went to bed and I couldn't find an iPhone in the Apple Store no iPhones order it get in line.

00:19:53: So yeah they delayed the launch of the new watch the new watch was supposed to be last month.

00:20:00: It's will be sometimes in November I don't know that don't think there's a date maybe there is I'm not sure,

00:20:05: and if I may add something here from your book you called it Diamond risk in the supply chain the resilience book and that's actually what it is right now right because tsmc

00:20:18: is actually in some parts of Chip production they are up to 90% of the world chip Market

00:20:25: provided by tsmc and this is actually the real example for a diamond risk or

00:20:32: let me just explain the diamond risk because we know that they are OEM let's say

00:20:38: Automotive OEM and the top and then they have contract manufacturers and don't have like Foxconn and flex and Jay bill

00:20:46: and then those guys have suppliers and they have supplies that they have supplied so we all have this image that is just spread out supplies more supplies more supplies.

00:20:55: It's hard to realize that sometimes all these supplies replied you know depend on one.

00:21:01: Because they all from the same person this is an example of tsmc that's a critical supplier that serves many Industries.

00:21:10: And many companies but not directly.

00:21:13: So GM may think well I have multiple contract manufacturers and they have you know stalking to flex they have think fourteen or eighteen thousand suppliers and other suppliers and.

00:21:25: Smile at the end Everybody by strips very similar chips and it's so,

00:21:30: and that's the shape of the supply chain is then going or reunions back to a to a diamond shape and that's what you condemned its recorded Diamond it goes like this and then pure lemon at the bottom.

00:21:44: It all Meats in one supplier and they've been examples like this before but this is a critical example now affect the entire industry not just the company.

00:21:54: Is this the first step to ending globalization let's a much more complicated question.

00:22:01: My answer is generally I don't think so I mean I don't think so even though there are calls by the media by the politician to end globalization.

00:22:11: I'm really.

00:22:12: Talking to supply chain Chief supply chain officer coz I do presentation boards and we have discussions about this the issue is as follows as many when people are talking about restoring the talk about leaving China.

00:22:25: At least in the United States it's actually the only issue that both Democrats and Republicans agree about will to issue

00:22:32: both of them hate Facebook and both of them hate China so it's it's it's the only issue they can agree on but you can talk to companies.

00:22:41: Many of these politician media don't realize that it's not just having a supplier in China it's having a whole ecosystem of supplier and their supplier in their supplies that thousands of them tens of thousands.

00:22:52: And over time they became good I mean people originally went to China for labor cost

00:22:57: and people went to China for low labor costs are really leaving China left China if you talk about garment manufacturing for example cutting and sewing garment it's in Sri Lanka it's Bangladesh even Chinese companies are not in China but textile is in China.

00:23:11: Even increasing.

00:23:12: Avionics is in China and high-tech is in China robotics as all of these most sophisticated industry and suppliers are in China.

00:23:21: And companies that invested billions of dollars and years and years and years decades in developing this all ecosystem.

00:23:29: It's not easy for them to leave China that's one second let's not forget two things about China.

00:23:36: It's a huge and growing market and it's becoming more and more nationalistic which means that in order to sell in China you have to build in China,

00:23:44: so I don't think we'll save too many company maybe over time sure if they'll be enough incentives.

00:23:52: And I think it will focus on critical items whether it's medical supplies or chips or Rare Earth minerals and again.

00:24:01: This trade-off.

00:24:03: Do you realize that the United States actually has a lot of rare earth minerals I mean some people say more than China but because of environmental concern we're not mining them because it's really there to Industry so so you don't mind them.

00:24:18: And it's a if you do it will be so expensive,

00:24:21: that it will be hard to make Market do I want the United States to ruin the United States environment know I live in the United States I'd rather have clean water and clean air in and on it but we have to realize there's a,

00:24:33: you know trade-off but the solution can't also be that we just pushed environmental not so healthy or not so sustainable procedures or Fabrications out of

00:24:46: the own country and to some other countries right this is the solution for many years just push it out let me give you one example,

00:24:53: we talked about the Port of Los Angeles that Matrix have to be less than 5 years old you know what happened all the old trucks were sold to South America.

00:25:02: When they don't maintain it properly and the pollution is through the roof because it's a global problem it's not a local problem you know global warming is global.

00:25:12: It's doesn't matter what California does,

00:25:15: and that's also something that goes through my mind all the time if we are talking about globalization I don't think that globalization will be ended on a global scale that I don't think that

00:25:26: but on the other hand I think what is the reason for globalization on the one you get the labor cost issue you want to produce in a country that is

00:25:36: cheaper than your own country

00:25:37: that's a reason but it's getting less and less right because the overall wages are getting more and more into an equal trade off here or at least closer

00:25:49: so that the transport costs will at some point there will be a Tipping Point right where you probably don't have the benefits anymore it's not the transport cost it's the course of managing

00:26:00: somewhere where tens of thousands of kilometers away it's the cost of taking more time which means it takes you more time to respond to Market changes,

00:26:09: so it's several of these issues as I said the people who went the company went to China just for low labor costs or already left really.

00:26:17: I mean China especially along the coast prices are you know labor costs are high.

00:26:23: And the second reason for moving to another country would be maybe the raw material issue that you have the raw materials there already and you want to

00:26:33: bring the Finish coat so that could be a reason but on the other hand there are two other reason not to do it,

00:26:40: first of all capabilities you have expertise and capabilities and know-how,

00:26:45: now China is becoming better and better and second you want to be close to your Market.

00:26:51: Yeah so it's close to the market so close to raw material it's yeah

00:26:55: and on the other hand on the Innovation side more and more factories are getting smaller and smaller so the manufacturing steps that you couldn't do in a small Factory a few years ago you might be able now true too

00:27:09: I don't know 3D printing or new technology in fabrication space and this also leads to maybe two more decentralization or is this a ver wrong

00:27:20: impression that I'm getting here I would not say it's not wrong it's not right it's the truth is much more nuanced because if you bottle Coca-Cola,

00:27:30: and the plant is running at the you know a million per hour you cannot do anything better than mass production.

00:27:38: I mean the items that are just mass production is so good you'll never do it with 3D printing is still slow it's very very slow so yeah you can do,

00:27:49: no test doesn't exempt yeah no no I understand what you're saying and some extent,

00:27:54: in some Industries for example the steel industry went over the last decades went to smaller factories rather than the unified I said that there are cases when this take you still have very big Automotive plants.

00:28:07: So I don't see assembly plants becoming very small soon the economies of scale are too large,

00:28:14: so it really depends on which one which industry you're talking about I know that moderna which is by the way modern office is behind my building.

00:28:22: Okay so you got the vaccine right across the street not quite it had to go to the government and then come back but it's but they're building now plants that are.

00:28:37: All kind of innovative plans for example the original plant was both a laboratory and a manufacturing plant so they are very very Advanced it's all beyond the fourth generation really.

00:28:48: They are totally digital totally collecting data everywhere always data-driven and the fact that they were able to do.

00:28:56: The lab or Regent the design the laboratory also is a manufacturing now they're doing both they're still trying new stuff and their manufacturing right here.

00:29:06: I mean it you know.

00:29:08: Billionaire right from this small building you can do things that are quite amazing but they still I don't see chemical plants or.

00:29:18: You know the model planes.

00:29:21: You know what's the the BASF the huge plant next to Manheim its enormous because at their the economies of scale is one process feeds another process feeds another process,

00:29:31: so it's basically a campus of chemical plant I don't see this becoming small,

00:29:35: so we probably will have both increasing decentralization in some ways and still globalization in the biggest cage right I think so I think so it depends on the product depend on the industry.

00:29:48: I would like to talk about one issue with you about sustainability in the supply chain how do you see that coming or evolving in the future there's a lot going on with e trucks a lot with hydrogen trucks LNG

00:30:03: liquid natural gas and so on what's your opinion on that and where do you think are the supply chains of the future going in that way

00:30:11: I think the issue is bigger than supply chain in some sense even though most of the emissions are in supply chain the issue they wrote about in my book on the you know I had either book

00:30:21: the newest book yes no not the noise who had the book-balancing green about 45 years ago four years ago Adam okay some some years before okay and I wrote then that the main problem is consumer acceptance.

00:30:34: The main problem is that people when you have a pole.

00:30:38: And some consulting firm as people do pay you know ten percent more for sustainable detergent of course 7080 percent would say yes so since I don't believe anything that people say in polls,

00:30:51: I went to the supermarket,

00:30:53: we had students then in supermarket and our Supermarket when they have in green awning sustainable product and right next to them regular product in Massachusetts which is.

00:31:03: One of the most Progressive state in the United States about 7% more choosing the sustainable product but 7% 777.

00:31:13: As opposed to 70 or 80 with to say they're going to yeah right by the way when I talk to all my friends in Industry they all have the same experience.

00:31:21: If people are not willing to pay for it now the problem is in my issued then was and

00:31:27: it's a lot more complicated so I'm trying to simplify and give you a quick response the problem is that if a large part of the citizenry is not willing to do it neither companies no governments can do it

00:31:39: companies can do it if the customers will not pay for it give you an example you know.

00:31:44: Donut started to change the straws from plastic straw too.

00:31:50: Disgusting really disgusting paper straws because they melt in your mouth okay but they change it it has Zero Effect.

00:31:58: So I think to somebody McDonald what are you doing you just you know it's greenwashing you do nothing and he said so what do you want us to die stop selling meat.

00:32:09: You know cows emit a lot of methane which is 28 times more harmful to the environment than CO2 to all we cannot do this.

00:32:19: There's a that goes through firing us and German company and German company what's this did the sneaker company Puma.

00:32:28: Puma did the environmental profit and loss statement everybody was talking about it so they did the EPA field find out every item what's the Environmental.

00:32:37: You know what they found that the worst item.

00:32:40: Is leather sneakers so I asked the head of supply chain so what are you going to do about it nothing customer still want leather sneakers.

00:32:48: So I still make leather sneakers so why do you do it,

00:32:51: okay so let's now go government also cannot do it think the French Government tried to put some carbon tax which by the way is the only way my view one of the main ways to do it is put a good carbon text Paris was burning.

00:33:06: Remember the yellow vests and all these yeah you remember I know the Australian government fell on the in the battle Coy was X the text.

00:33:14: They didn't want to have a lot I'm not saying everybody but the a large segment of the population were not willing to do it so my solution,

00:33:22: and it has to do by the way with the pandemic Let Me Tie to the pandemic because both the pandemic and global warming are Global problems.

00:33:31: You cannot sell with locally if we will vaccinate the entire United States and we don't vaccinate Africa it means nothing we have not solved the.

00:33:41: The same wave Southern California is putting you know emission standard but Chinese is still opening or India is still open and coal plants.

00:33:50: You know it doesn't work the world has to operate in concert that one it's a global problem another to me another validation of my argument from four years ago.

00:34:01: That consumers are not willing to do it let me ask you a question over 40%,

00:34:07: of u.s. people are not willing to get vaccinated read about it okay how can you convince people when they have life-threatening disease people are dying Colin Powell just died.

00:34:21: I mean couldn't phone just died from covid how do you convince these people there's danger in front of them.

00:34:28: But because some idiotic leader that they believe in telling something they're not willing to get vaccinated how do you convince them.

00:34:35: Over the engine like this they're not willing to adjust some cost money it's free it how do you convince them to make lifestyle changes that may reduce the standard of living for a danger that will happen decades from now.

00:34:48: My answer is you don't.

00:34:50: It's a lost cause not causing it doesn't matter if I will stop Flying or you will stop Flying it doesn't matter there are enough people who just.

00:35:00: I'm not willing to do it or don't believe in it I don't care what.

00:35:03: So there is a solution for this the solution for me which I argue before and I'm even more convinced them is technology look how we solve the pandemic we solve it with technology the vaccines a technological Marvel that's my new book I have a new book that will come out tomorrow in fact.

00:35:19: About the vaccination process in the vaccine itself and the MRNA and the whole process so you knew abnormal or is it a newer one if yes if yes is shot in the arm.

00:35:33: Because the new abnormal came before the vaccine was ready.

00:35:36: There was no vaccine okay came out in last October this October Tomorrow there's a new book coming called the shot in the arm about,

00:35:44: the science of the MRNA processing the whole process of vaccination and Autumn okay so coming back so the solution to pandemic was technology is technology

00:35:54: we'll have testing will have you know vaccinations we know how the Merc peel so the solution is technology.

00:36:02: In the same way argue that we had some technology already.

00:36:06: All the Renewables I agree a technological solution when you have wind when you have some part but there are limited you can get to.

00:36:15: Seventeen percent 20% you cannot get 100% renewable so.

00:36:20: It's just that it doesn't work because the wind doesn't get any sun doesn't come with the time we will need the art Technologies now in the lab.

00:36:28: Of carbon capture and sequestration of getting carbon out of the air we will need to do it when I get optimistic I said okay the government of the world said trillions and trillions of dollars on developing the vaccine and helping the economy.

00:36:42: If we spend a fraction of this on developing the Technologies to take carbon out of the air.

00:36:48: And we must do it because huge part of the world is still living on less than five dollars a day.

00:36:55: They want air condition they want automobiles they want concrete houses they want to eat meat.

00:37:01: So it's unfair to tell them look we in the west we are fine you guys should stay.

00:37:07: You know where you are you cannot get better standard of living that's that's an awful way of thing this it's just unfair.

00:37:14: So I think that the Western World will have to develop to invest.

00:37:19: In the technological solutions so that's my solution for this because I don't see decreasing standard of living which many people associate with all kind of environmental rules as the solution is on look on the margin

00:37:32: it will help a lot less than people think because if you look at what you get electric vehicle,

00:37:40: you know and I know that building the batteries,

00:37:43: is a very very energy consuming process and has a lot of chemicals and other little mining a lot of chemicals that are not fun

00:37:53: and then the question is,

00:37:54: where will all the electricity come from with the grid be able to do it you need to move it will we have enough electricity generated many many questions

00:38:03: what are you thinking when you say dry or technology will be the issue to solve it in many ways than I guess right also in the ways of driving forward the renewable energies driving forward electrified trucks and whatever or hydrogen trucks and driving forward

00:38:21: getting out the carbon out of the atmosphere again and different Technologies but I'll tell you what's the difference between

00:38:29: carbon sequestration carbon capture and all this technology all this technology.

00:38:34: You're talking about will reduce the rate of emission hopefully not as much as people think but reduce the rate of emission

00:38:41: taking carbon out of the atmosphere will reverse the situation it has more impact its it reverses so

00:38:48: that's the issue to me I hope that the government just like they came together to start funding on the vaccines and helping the helping the economy will come together.

00:38:58: To find technologies that will reduce the carbon in the atmosphere I hope,

00:39:04: yeah that's a very good hope and I think it's a good way to do it is this something you'll see that you mentioned already in the book the new abnormal or was this just on the covid situation itself

00:39:16: I'm at the end of the normal and even at the end of the new book The End Of The Notebook I'm saying that one of the lessons that we can take from how we deal with the vaccine.

00:39:27: Is that we had governments you know companies people all come together.

00:39:34: And solve the problem the subtitle of the book is called a shot in the arm.

00:39:38: And the subtitle is how science engineering and Supply chains converge to vaccinate the world and I think that having this model of a lot of cooperation between scientists and engineers and supply chain managers,

00:39:53: there was a lot of coordination and a lot of cooperation that and able to get the vaccine in 10 months this is unprecedented so we got it so I'm saying that the working together give us maybe

00:40:06: blueprint for the future in other I'm hopeful by Nature an optimist by Nature so I hope that this is the case

00:40:14: and you'll see last question for the logistics Community what do you see as the biggest new Innovations in the logistics or in the supply chain I can't

00:40:25: leave you of the podcast without this question well it's very hard to get one I would say something that already seeing.

00:40:35: It's scale.

00:40:37: Is the introduction of Robotics to warehousing this is a Mars and everything that is connected to that all the yeah this is becoming more and more.

00:40:49: You see it more and more I was in J d.com Distribution Center in Shanghai.

00:40:57: I used to have I think hundreds of thousands of people in his four people running it at the same throughput,

00:41:04: it's all robot so you see and they're becoming better and better I mean the the Romans I think this is a big change I don't see autonomous trucks coming that fast.

00:41:16: I mean they'll be maybe on specific Highway specific Lanes but still have problems.

00:41:21: With autonomous truck General Communications becoming better and and you know it used to be that we send.

00:41:30: Email to each other now we just zoom and talk to each other by the way aside from Logistics at you say one of the best thing that happened out of the pandemic is Telehealth.

00:41:40: The idea that anybody.

00:41:43: In Africa now can see a doctor in Massachusetts General Hospital and get the you know right here Massachusetts is one of the biggest Hospital in one of the best hospitals United States and get some of the best diagnostic that can happen.

00:41:56: Over the internet to me that is something that came out of the pandemic.

00:42:01: Is it told you I'm Optimus always like to look at the good side what can what is the good that came out of the pandemic so this is something good.

00:42:09: Okay very good you'll see and I wanted to ask you for a last question what will be your next book what we you already wrote it actually so

00:42:19: but do you have already to next one in mind Basics next one okay that's it.

00:42:25: I would have loved to be worked together on the shortages but this is I believe that by the time I'll feel it takes me a year to to write a book.

00:42:33: So by the time I finish this my business the shortages will not be will not be an issue but I met before my previous book before the last book The no abnormal I was working on a book on Innovations in logistics exactly.

00:42:47: Hey you last question trying to understand what Innovations will be fundamental.

00:42:52: What the canola G will be fundamental and what will be just a niche product for example you remember RFID people thought how it's gonna change everything.

00:43:01: I didn't change everything change some things are still people using RFID but it didn't change the entire all the supply chain processes and only so.

00:43:11: I'm trying to understand which technology will be widely used and which not so what I'm doing.

00:43:18: And I don't have to get back to this every two years I haven't worked on it but I have its historical book look at history the history of logistics basically.

00:43:27: And how what worked what Innovation what type of innovation work and trying to develop a lens or a point of view about the future.

00:43:37: I don't know I never did a book like this but II you know if you saw I do books on all kind of stuff I'm just I'm just having fun so and it's great yeah

00:43:46: I can recommend you one book it's called Innovations in the autistics and actually I've eroded in the during the covid friend a minute.

00:43:59: Maybe is a starting point for reading absolutely it was really a pleasure talking to you and I think it was a great talk for all of our Logistics Community you'll see I thank you very much and I hope that we can talk again,

00:44:13: when you wrote your next book absolutely okay enjoy bye-bye.

00:44:21: All right that was the logistics try podcast episode with professor yossi sheffi

00:44:26: I hope you enjoyed Today's show if so consider giving us a quick review on a podcast that helps other people fight or podcast more easily and make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any of the future episodes I'm boss felgendreher until next time.